Author Topic: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?  (Read 6746 times)

Offline TrekMD

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2013, 20:52:00 PM »
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Re:2600 Pac-Man:

I've read in past, Todd Frye (coder of said game) 'defending it, basically saying it was developed on a 4K Rom by himself in just in 5 months, where as Ms Pac-Man was done by  a 3-man team, on an 8K Rom in 6 months and the $K Rom was the problem, his version had a 2-Player mode which ate into what little memory there was and after the release of Pac-Man, Atari set the rule that every new game needed to have an 8K Rom.

He also said that when he started coding Pac-Man, not only were 8K Rom's not avaiable, but Pac-Man was'nt a particularly big game, 'Pac-Man Fever' hit sometime between start and finish of his conversion.

He said he made the best decisions he could based on the technology avaiable at the time, but had he started coding 6 months later, he'd have done things differently.

Yep, always heard this.  Also that he had only presented the game as a "draft" to Atari management but they wanted the game out as it was to generate sales ASAP.  Techniques have changed over the years but, clearly, 4K could have been enough to make a better game even back then.  That's why this version was written within the 4K limitation:

[align=center:1dck2r0d]Pac-Man 4K [Atari 2600] -- Nice and Games[/align:1dck2r0d]

Going to the final frontier, gaming...

Offline T2KFreeker

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2013, 21:16:19 PM »
Wow, a few here that were good, so I'll hit a couple here that might make people remember some sadness.

The Sega 32X failing- Yuppers, I actually really liked the system. I still think it has the best version of the original Virtua Fighter and many of the games on the system were exclusive to it. Sadly, right after the thing was released, Sega announced the Saturn and confused people who were already confused wiht the business direction Sega was going since the release of the Sega CD system.

Matsushita Cancelling the M2 - Yes, I was, and still am, a HUGE 3DO fan. The system was very much ahead of it's time, and really missed out due to some really bad business decisions. Had the money machine really gotten behind it and the launch price had been about $400.00 cheaper, perhaps it would have done much better than it did. Keeping o0ut of all of that, the reason I brought that up is that when Matsushita decided to stop production of the 3DO system itself after purchasing the technology of it and the follow up system the M2 from 3DO, the system had actually started to sell much better. The price cut had done wonders for the system and by that time it's not like Matsushita, the parent company of Panasonic, was losing money on it. E3 time, due to the hype machine that was the Playstation, when Matsushita saw that both Sega and Nintendo were struggling to compete with Sony at the show, they threw the hat in, cancelling the M2 machine as a gaming console. The saddest thing about this was gaming magazines and the like claiming that the M2 was only Marginally better looking than the Playstation, graphics wise, but anyone who took the real time to look at the games that were demoed for the system, you know it was a lie as the M2 looked more like a MUCH cleaner and much faster N64, graphics wise. That's the closest I can think to describe them because they looked better than the N64 even.
Step right up folks, perhaps you'd like a moment with the Fortune Teller?  Or the Mirror Maze where you can drown in your deepest regrets? I know, perhaps you'd rather a ride on our Merry Go Round backwards? It could help with those aches and lines from age that Ail you so?

Offline Rogue Trooper

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2013, 21:34:30 PM »
To be completely fair though after those faked demo's, Matsuhita really did'nt help themselves did they.They went into a P.R mode Sony would have been proud of, when it came to over-claiming just how powerful M2 was.

Claims that it was nearly as powerful as Sega's Model 3 Arcade technology (so around 10X the power of the N64) were always going to result in them creating a rod for their own back.

In reality, M2 was very good, powerful hardware for the time, looking at around 2-3 times the polygon power of the N64 and overall graphical performance edging slightly over that of the 3DFX Voodoo 1 graphics card, so not to be sniffed at.

D2 as it was on M2 always looked interesting (DC version re-written) and did'nt a planned beat-em-up turn up elsewhere?

Offline Rogue Trooper

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2013, 21:52:23 PM »
Iron And Blood was what i was thinking of....

Apparently, some claim other than D2 intro etc and that IMSA Racing Game footage, all other M2 'footage' (game or tech.demo) , was all pre-rendered on a Silicon Graphics Machine using Alias/Wavefront software.

So i guess if you play the media, best be prepared for the media to play right back.....

Offline T2KFreeker

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2013, 22:10:39 PM »
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Iron And Blood was what i was thinking of....

Apparently, some claim other than D2 intro etc and that IMSA Racing Game footage, all other M2 'footage' (game or tech.demo) , was all pre-rendered on a Silicon Graphics Machine using Alias/Wavefront software.

So i guess if you play the media, best be prepared for the media to play right back.....

Like I said, all I know is that I really wanted to see what this sucker could do. I know that the game play footage that has indeed surfaced of D2 over the years looks amazing for it.s time. Just too bad that Sony had such a foothold on the industry that we never got to see it. Also, yeah, D2 was awesoem on the Dreamcast. Too bad it's totally different than what the M2 version was supposed to be.
Step right up folks, perhaps you'd like a moment with the Fortune Teller?  Or the Mirror Maze where you can drown in your deepest regrets? I know, perhaps you'd rather a ride on our Merry Go Round backwards? It could help with those aches and lines from age that Ail you so?

Offline Rogue Trooper

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2013, 22:27:56 PM »
Well, we do have the 4 coin-op's Konami produced which were based on the M2 technology:

Polystars, Hell Night, Total Vice and Battle Tyrst.

Plus WARP's Keji Eno said Dreamcast was around 3-4X more powerful than M2 and having worked on both, he should know, so we can kinda guess what sort of real time performance machine would have been capable of.

Way better than PS1+N64 and slightly better in areas than PC with 3DFX graphics card sounds reasonable.

Offline TL

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2013, 12:39:12 PM »
A few little ones of mine:

Pit-Fighter on the Lynx - No speech or intros for the fighters.

Mercs on the Mega Drive - No two-player mode.

Sensible Soccer on the Jaguar - No ability to save edited teams.

But that said these were all excellent games even with these minor disappointments.

Offline davyk

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2013, 19:21:20 PM »
Some talk of 2600 Pacman in this thread - I heard that what Todd Frye put together was just a rough cut first try that was thrown together to prove it could be done - and management saw it and said, "That's it!".....

it sold pretty well from what I remember so maybe they had a point!!! They poisoned the well long term of course - and must have played a role in the crash (not to mention the management greed that no doubt saw plenty of crap stuff out the door without a care for quality)....but I have read plenty of posts in retro forums from people with fond memories of it.

I wasn't a big fan of the game at the time (I have since become to think very highly of it though) so while I though it was dodgy it wasn't the crushing disappointment to me that it was to others. Ms Pacman and Pacman Jr are great though - as are the various home-brews - but those homebrew devs, while very skilled,  have the benefit of decades of technique development to fall back on - poor old Todd!!

Offline DreamcastRIP

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2013, 20:38:09 PM »
Quote from: "davyK"
...Ms Pacman and Pacman Jr are great though - as are the various home-brews - but those homebrew devs, while very skilled,  have the benefit of decades of technique development to fall back on - poor old Todd!!

Plus, iirc, in Marty and Curt's Atari book it states that Atari wouldn't let Todd use a cartridge with the additional memory capacity that Ms. Pac-Man subsequently used and that the decision played a significant part in for why Pac-Man was the way it was on the 2600.
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Offline Rogue Trooper

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2013, 21:38:38 PM »
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
Quote from: "davyK"
...Ms Pacman and Pacman Jr are great though - as are the various home-brews - but those homebrew devs, while very skilled,  have the benefit of decades of technique development to fall back on - poor old Todd!!

Plus, iirc, in Marty and Curt's Atari book it states that Atari wouldn't let Todd use a cartridge with the additional memory capacity that Ms. Pac-Man subsequently used and that the decision played a significant part in for why Pac-Man was the way it was on the 2600.

Yep, you can find Todd's comments on why game turned out way it did at top of this page, if he'd had 8K to start with, it'd been different, plus the 2-player mode ate into that 4K he did have and he was single coder with very strict deadline etc.

Offline DreamcastRIP

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2013, 00:36:53 AM »
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
Quote from: "davyK"
...Ms Pacman and Pacman Jr are great though - as are the various home-brews - but those homebrew devs, while very skilled,  have the benefit of decades of technique development to fall back on - poor old Todd!!

Plus, iirc, in Marty and Curt's Atari book it states that Atari wouldn't let Todd use a cartridge with the additional memory capacity that Ms. Pac-Man subsequently used and that the decision played a significant part in for why Pac-Man was the way it was on the 2600.

Yep, you can find Todd's comments on why game turned out way it did at top of this page, if he'd had 8K to start with, it'd been different, plus the 2-player mode ate into that 4K he did have and he was single coder with very strict deadline etc.

My bad - serves me right for not reading previous posts, lol!
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Offline Rogue Trooper

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2013, 16:01:47 PM »
Horward Scott Warshaw said that even when Atari's 2600 coders were getting amazing things out of hardware (asteriods, Missile Command, Ms Pac-Man etc), Atari's marketing people said they were not good engineers, because they could'nt make the games look like the arcade versions...as he put it:

'People who knew nothing of our tools and technology, who contribute precious little value to the process judged us harshly and pissed us off'.

Quote from Carla Meninsky: 'we'd spend weeks coding up these amazing tricks and getting more out of the machine than anyone had ever though possible and the marketing guy would take one look and ask-'can't you make the ball round?'.....'

Offline DreamcastRIP

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2013, 17:25:22 PM »
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Horward Scott Warshaw said that even when Atari's 2600 coders were getting amazing things out of hardware (asteriods, Missile Command, Ms Pac-Man etc), Atari's marketing people said they were not good engineers, because they could'nt make the games look like the arcade versions...as he put it:

'People who knew nothing of our tools and technology, who contribute precious little value to the process judged us harshly and pissed us off'.

Quote from Carla Meninsky: 'we'd spend weeks coding up these amazing tricks and getting more out of the machine than anyone had ever though possible and the marketing guy would take one look and ask-'can't you make the ball round?'.....'

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Offline TL

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2013, 21:23:16 PM »
A few more:

Growl on the Mega Drive - one player only!

Double Dragon on the Atari ST - the whole game really, but especially the lack of music!

Galaxian on the Atari 8-bit - very poor conversion of the arcade game indeed with awful sound.

Offline davyk

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Re: Your most crushing disappointments in gaming?
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2013, 23:21:00 PM »
Darious Gaiden and Bubble Bobble on Sega Saturn......no high score save. Inexcusable.

This really.....really....annoyed me - still annoys me. What is the point of score chasing games in which you can't save the high score? Verges on game breaking in these instances.